Poet Len Pennie and Composer Paul Leonard-Morgan Discuss ‘Delusions’, and the joy of collaboration

Ahead of their upcoming tour across Scotland, acclaimed poet Len Pennie and BAFTA-winning composer Paul Leonard-Morgan are bringing their collaborative project Delusions to audiences around the country. Blending spoken word with piano, electronics and strings. The album explores themes of love, loss, wonder and rage through a distinctly Scottish lens, building on the acclaim it received following its debut at Celtic Connections at the start of the year.

Pennie’s deeply personal poetry has connected with millions – particularly online, while Leonard-Morgan’s music has shaped some of the most celebrated film, television and video game soundtracks of recent years. Together, they have created a work that is both intimate and cinematic. Ahead of the tour, we spoke to them about the creative trust behind Delusions, the joy of collaboration, and why it was important that both the album and live performances remain firmly rooted in Scotland.

Congratulations on the release of Delusions. Can you talk us through some of the musicians who were part of its creation?

Paul Leonard-Morgan: I think most excitedly Len Pennie – she is this poet who will be coming along, who will be great! But seriously, we’re joined by the wonderful Su-a Lee (acclaimed cellist and player with the Scottish Chamber Orchestra), Greg Lawson (violinist, composer and conductor, lecturer at the Royal Conservatoire of Scotland) and Cheryl Crockett (violinist with the Scottish Ensemble playing regularly with the national orchestras) to name just a few.

What’s been lovely about this project is that many of these musicians are people I’ve worked with throughout my career. Recording the album brought a lot of those connections together again and afterwards I found myself thinking, ‘We need to do more of this’, so I am glad to be bringing some of them on tour as well.

Your first performance together was at Celtic Connection, how was that experience and how did that sow the seed for the full tour?

Len Pennie: We had such a good time at Celtic Connections, and Paul said we should take this on tour, and I agreed that would be fun but thinking, it will be three or four years down the line. Suddenly Paul had booked everything.

Paul: It was just an amazing feeling and such a wonderful response. I had never experienced anything like it, I knew I wanted more.

Len: We have a really good energy both performing and between the songs – it was something I wanted to do again for many reasons but particularly because it is rare when you find people who heighten the material when you work with them. I perform alone for the vast majority of my time and this is the first time I have ever had an ensemble with me. It brings things out of my work like never before. Paul is a bit of an emotional and psychological whetstone.

What do you think this collaboration has brought to you as performers and creatives, and is there a particular track you think showcases this well?

Len: My stuff is quite rhythmic and it’s quite hard to work out where to fit music into that. I think Paul’s work compliments what I do really well. There is so much more emotion when the music is driving behind you. It forces me to produce more emotions in order to get up to that level, so it’s been really interesting. Performing ‘Honey’ with Paul, I have never been that loud or angry – there is a fury with that piece that is exhausting but cathartic.

Paul: When we were recording the album, we were doing our sections in different rooms, and it was essentially a one take sensation. But I popped in at the moment when Len was recording ‘Honey’. There is a certain line, where I just burst into tears and I just looked around the recording room, and everyone else was in tears too. It still gives me shivers when I hear the recording. And when we played it live I sent Len a rough mix and she loved it. But the wonderful thing about the performances is that they are different every time, and that’s the best thing about doing it live.

Len: Because my work is inextricably linked to trauma I have been through, performing feels like a safe way to access those feelings. It allows my body to go back to how I felt when I was experiencing those things – but without any danger. And maybe that’s why it works so well with the music, it is not something I can control like my words. It allows me to lean into that unpredictability in a safe environment. 

There are very few times in life where you get to shout and scream and express that embodied rage in a safe way. Honestly I was beginning to fall out of love with performing but doing this project and through Paul’s relentless optimism – and believe me it is relentless, it has made me fall back in love with my own work and being on stage.

Can you talk me through how the album was pieced together and the journey of its creation?

Len: Paul picked the poems. I lovingly say, he picked a load of b-sides. But what I mean is that they are not pieces I would have picked myself. Different people respond to different works, and Paul has picked the ones he responds to which I think is for the best. If I had chosen, I would have been too close to the work. 

Paul’s separation from the topics helps him find the pieces that suit the project and they all fit perfectly together. It allows us to create a narrative for the performance which feels balanced. He’s managed to find the light in the music and add those moments of reprieve. 

Paul: It took a while to find out what this album was. I actually started off doing some dance music but soon found that just wasn’t right. It takes a while to relax with someone when you are collaborating. 

You have to trust them implicitly as an artist, you need them to know that you are not going to destroy their work in any way. After hearing the dance approach, Len actually said she was hoping it would actually stir emotions, and she highlighted the parts she loved. So it was entirely Len’s suggestions that pivoted the album to what it is now. 

From its creation through to this tour, Delusions has been a real Scottish-rooted project. How important has that been for you both?

Paul: For me it is such an important part of the project. I live in LA now but I try to bring as much recording to Scotland as possible. I am so proud of the talent in Scotland. We should be shouting about how freaking good we are up here. I wanted to record it, mix it, produce it, press it… all in Scotland. 

Len obviously sounds incredibly Scottish and is passionately from Scotland so I knew we had to tour it across the country. It’s not about the size of the audience, it’s about delivering the subject matter to audiences who might not otherwise experience anything similar. I’m really thankful to Creative Scotland who helped us out with funding for this tour which allows us to travel to these places.

Len: I owe Scotland everything. Maintaining a connection with the talent that we have in Scotland is something I am incredibly passionate about. This talent can only be produced if we have the right investment and right attention towards making art accessible here. 

It wasn’t a question to me where it was to be recorded, we have an absolute wealth of talent here. The Scottish arts scene is such a beautiful community – these are the people if we invest in them now and in the next generation – it can be a perpetual cycle of talent and enjoyment as we keep building a strong musical community.

Delusions is out now via Rage Music. Len and Paul will tour the album 20th-27th August, in Greenock, Stirling and Findhorn, culminating in a sold-out Edinburgh International Book Festival appearance.